There are so many legendary Peter Hook bass lines spanning Joy Division, New Order and Monaco. His bass playing almost stands alone on those songs as the driving melody.
When Guitar Player catches up with Hooky, as he’s better known, he and his fellow bass-wielding son Jack Bates are preparing for their North American tour with Peter Hook & the Light. Following his 2007 split from New Order, Hooky formed the group in 2010 with the sole purpose of performing Joy Division and New Order songs live.
While the chasm between Hooky and his old New Order bandmates seems as wide and deep as ever, he has found great reflection, solace and pride playing bass alongside Jack, who is himself a touring member of the Smashing Pumpkins.
“I remember when you took us to get my first bass and the guy in the shop said he would give us a discount if you played some Joy Division on it,” Jack says, laughing. It was a green Yamaha RBX. Jack still has it.
Whenever these kids ran forward to spit at Ian, I would bang the curl in their ear. I got seven in one night!”
— Peter Hook
Understanding his father’s bass philosophy requires understanding his relationship with instruments themselves. Hooky started with what he calls “the 30-quid one” in 1976 — an Echo copy of a Gibson SG, wrapped in bin bags by the music shop owner in Manchester. The seller wanted five more pounds for a hard case. Hooky passed. He needed it for bus fare home.
The Hondo that followed was worse — a Rickenbacker copy that literally fell apart mid-performance. During the opening song of a gig, Hooky struck an open E and the string jumped right off the neck.
“It was such a shit guitar,” he remembers. His stepfather fabricated a holder to keep the strings in the nut.
But it was that Hondo that became legendary in Hooky’s telling, used in his early Joy Division performances with singer Ian Curtis, guitarist Bernard “Barney” Sumner and drummer Stephen Morris. The group grew out of their previous outfit, Warsaw.
“I had the Hondo with a little curl on the top,” he explains. “Whenever these kids ran forward to spit at Ian, I would bang the curl in their ear. I got seven in one night! Unfortunately, it used to knock the guitar out of tune, which used to make Barney frown like fuck. So it was the price I paid for protecting Ian.”
Everything changed when he discovered the Yamaha BB1200S. He’s owned 10 of them. He still has four. It’s become his instrument of choice — the one that allowed him to play the likes of “Blue Monday,” “Bizarre Love Triangle,” “True Faith” and countless other iconic New Order tracks and finally achieve the tonal clarity he’d been chasing through years of inferior equipment.
“The first Yamaha I got, which was the 600, was stolen in America,” Hooky says with a smirk. It was 1980 and New Order were on their first U.S. tour. “Everything was stolen. They just broke into the van and drove it all off. I went to Manny’s on 48th Street, which was a very, very famous music store. It’s gone now. I bought a [Yamaha] 800. [Producer] Martin Hannett was the guy who told me to get an Alembic preamp, which was a stereo preamp, but I was never actually happy with the sound of the 800. Then when I saw the 1200S, I thought, ‘Jesus, this is the one!’”
If Mick Jagger had come to me and put a gun to my head and said, ‘Play “Satisfaction,”’ I would just have said, ‘Pull the trigger, Mick.’”
— Peter Hook
Jack, meanwhile, started on one of Hooky’s instruments before getting his own. His father mentions buying him a Flea bass many years ago — “and that was a shit guitar,” Hooky says. “I thought, If I ever see that Flea, I’m going to give him a right mouth.” It’s delivered with such genuine Manchester frustration and black humor that only Hooky could pull off.
Here’s something that might shock guitar players: Peter Hook cannot tune by ear. Cannot play by ear. His mother used to say, “you couldn’t carry a tune in a bucket — and she wasn’t wrong,” he says with a laugh.
“Barney would come over and go, ‘Your bass is out of tune.’ And I’d have to turn it around so that he could tune it.”
When electronic tuners arrived, Hooky bought two immediately.
“I was free,” he says, and you can hear the genuine relief in those three words. Hooky has gone on to create some of the most distinctive bass lines in rock history.
Jack has no such problems. Hooky looks at this ability with something between envy and wonder.
“He’s got a gift that I don’t have,” he acknowledges. “He can pick up a riff by ear, where I can’t. So when I was fifth in line for the Rolling Stones [in the early 1990s], if Mick Jagger had come to me and put a gun to my head and said, ‘Play “Satisfaction,”’ I would just have said, ‘Pull the trigger, Mick.’”
When Jack was 18, he played his first gig with his father in Hooky’s band Monaco. He’s since been the touring bassist for the Smashing Pumpkins for more than a decade now. That the Pumpkins are considerably larger than anything his father is currently doing both amuses and impresses Hooky.
“The band he’s in now is much bigger than we are and he takes it all in his stride and then comes back to us,” he says. “The only problem we get is that I’ll play a riff and he’ll go, ‘You’re playing that wrong.’ And I’ll go, ‘I’m not — I fucking wrote it!’ But usually he is right.”
Billy’s done a great job of turning Jack into a great man. I can’t thank him enough for that. They look after him like royalty.”
— Peter Hook
It was the Pumpkins’ Billy Corgan who made this happen. Hooky met Corgan when the Pumpkins leader was 14 — a shy kid who didn’t eat or speak — at a dinner Hooky hosted in Chicago. Years later, Corgan’s band was selling out arenas.
When Hooky was playing in Chicago with the Light, Jack suggested asking Corgan to sing “Love Will Tear Us Apart.” Hooky dismissed the idea — until Jack got in touch with Corgan on social media himself. Corgan said yes.
“Billy Corgan came down, sang ‘Love Will Tear Us Apart’ with us, and then fucking stole my son. Cheeky bastard,” Hooky jabs, but there’s unmistakable warmth underneath the complaint. “Billy’s done a great job of turning Jack into a great man. I can’t thank him enough for that. They look after him like royalty.”
To return the favor — at a massive Pumpkins stadium show in Mexico with more than 50,000 people — Corgan invited Hooky to play “No Love Lost,” one of the oldest Joy Division songs, as the final track of their set. Hooky didn’t even know they’d come offstage to go back for an encore.
“So we had quite a few puzzled Mexicans,” he laughs.
What separates Hooky’s playing from nearly every other bassist is something most musicians don’t understand until they try to replicate it: his right hand. Jack explains.
“The more traditional bass players are used to just being the rhythm with the drums,” he says. “Then you try to play like him, which is the complete opposite of that. You sort of have to forget everything.”
Traditional bass players are used to just being the rhythm with the drums. Then you try to play like him, which is the complete opposite of that.”
— Jack Bates
This is why experienced American session bassists often can’t nail Hooky’s songs. They get the notes right, but the rhythm of the right hand — the propulsive, almost percussive quality that makes a Hooky bass line dance — eludes them.
“When they try and learn the songs, their left hand is always playing the right frets. So they’ve got the notes, but it’s the rhythm of the right hand that freaks people out,” Hooky notes. “They can’t get it right.”
Jack, having grown up hearing these lines, having absorbed them through his genetic material and countless hours of exposure, can replicate his father’s playing with uncanny precision. “You can’t tell that there’s two people playing it. Yeah. Rhythm and everything is exactly the same,” Hooky says with genuine pride.
When asked about his favorite Joy Division or New Order bass lines, Hooky becomes philosophical and hugely self-effacing.
“I’ve been insanely lucky to not get overdrawn at the riff bank yet. Sometimes I listen to the likes of ‘24 Hours,’ ‘She’s Lost Control’ or ‘Disorder’ and think, Okay now, how did I manage that? Or if you go on the internet, there’s always somebody playing ‘Ceremony’ or ‘Blue Monday’ or something. I’m like, ‘Wow, this is incredible stuff,’ and I had no idea how I did it.”
Hooky says his bass line for New Order’s “Age of Consent” is a particular favorite of his. He wonders aloud why Jack doesn’t write his own material, why he doesn’t have his own band.
“He doesn’t have to be in my shadow, because he’s such a great bass player,” Hooky says, genuine conviction in his voice. “He can play any style I can’t.”
But Jack is where he wants to be — playing with his father, carrying the legacy forward. He quickly brushes off the pressure you would expect with such musical heritage.
“You know what? It’s just fun. If I can help the people who want to listen to his music — if I can help that happen — then that’s great. That’s the way I see it. I want to go everywhere because there’s people that want to hear him play, and I want to help that. So I don’t see it as a job, really.”
Jack and Peter kick off their North American tour this weekend with Peter Hook and the Light. They will be playing the full New Order Get Ready album as part of the Joy Division/New Order series they have now been touring for years. This particular album was made during a rare moment of harmony with frontman Bernard Sumner in the latter years of Hook’s time in New Order.
“On Get Ready, both Bernard and I rediscovered our friendship and it made the actual making of the LP very enjoyable for that,” Hooky says. “It was the same friendship we had when we started the band Warsaw in 1976. We worked together so well with [producer] Steve Osborne, and me and Barney never fell out because he took it all out on Steve.
Nobody believed in Joy Division more than him. He would have absolutely bloody loved that.”
— Peter Hook
“So, you know, it did actually work in that respect. When we finished the record, we were very, very together. The record — I don’t know why — it’s the most enjoyable to play out of all of the ones we’ve done.”
The Rock & Roll Hall of Fame induction looms this November, but the other members of Joy Division/New Order aren’t planning to attend. Hooky will accept on behalf of the fans. There’s bitterness there — “I would rather die than be anywhere near them bastards,” he offers — but also an almost defiant pride in continuing alone.
One has to ask what Ian Curtis might make of the occasion.
“Ian was always Joy Division’s biggest fan, and it was always him that would look to drive the rest of us on and pick us up whenever we were down. He used to always say to me, ‘We’re going to be big in Brazil. We’re going to be big in Mexico. We’re going to be big in Portugal.’
“Nobody believed in Joy Division more than him, and so to receive that recognition and to be inducted alongside loads of other bands that we admired so much — he would have absolutely bloody loved that.”
What emerges from an hour of conversation between Hooky and Jack is something rarely seen in rock music: a genuine, uncomplicated love between a father and son who also happen to be musical partners.
“We have a typical family love-hate relationship. We fall out and make up,” Hooky says. “I love him to death and I always will. So it’s just as easy as that. As a father, I’m immensely proud of all of them. It’s wonderful. To be honest with you, it’s very special.”
Jack’s commitment is equally clear. “No matter where I am, I will always break my neck to get back from a Pumpkins show to make one of his gigs,” he says, “because there’s nothing better than doing that.”
Peter Hook & the Light launch their North American tour on August 22 in Cincinnati. Visit PeterHookandTheLight.live for complete tour information.
